When Can I Take The Collar Off? Training That Sticks.

00:00

Speaker 1: Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond Canine Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. And we are primarily eco trainers, so we specialize in off-leash obedience and behavior modification. So more or less stopping unwanted behaviors. Um, we do lots of state of mind work with dogs that have behavioral issues, um, and we also do puppy stuff, so puppy training, puppy raising manners, um, that sort of thing. So that's who we are, that's what we do. Uh, and this podcast serves as a way for us to reach more people and sort of just talk about, um, the things that we're talking about with our hands on clients day in and day out, and things that we see that people need the most help with.

Speaker 1: Um, 'cause it's hard to find the information is hard to find. Um, there's a lot of crap out there, a lot of lies, a lot of, I hate using the word misinformation now after COVID, but misinformation, um, there's, you know, a lot of ignorance.

Speaker 1: So, um, there's a lot of agendas and it's just, it's really difficult to find, um, information that's truly helpful. So that's what we strive to do here on this podcast. Um, and today I kind of wanted to touch on accountability, but specifically around, um, shaping your dog's behavior permanently. So what I mean by that is a lot of times when people do training, they ask a question, and it's a good question, like, are we going to have to do this forever? Or sometimes they don't ask that, and they should be. And we'll talk more about that in a minute too.

02:00 — Peppe frames whether owners must train forever as a question every dog owner should…

Speaker 1: Um, and so I wanna kind of spell out for you what you should expect long term from a training program, um, and how to gauge whether or not it's working and if it's not working, if it's the training the trainer, right? Or if it's you, <laugh>, um, or both, um, or your dog. So if you wanna get results long term, um, one thing needs to be absolutely clear and there, there really are no exceptions for this. Um, so if you take one thing away from this podcast, and hopefully it'll be more than that, but if you take one thing away from today's episode, let it be this accountability needs to be forever.

Speaker 1: So what that means is there absolutely positively will never come a time that you don't need to hold your dog accountable, that you can just stop providing consequences. Doesn't happen, never going to happen. You will always need to do that. That's true for every dog. And if you listen to me regularly, you probably remember from one of my very recent episodes, I say a very rarely globalized. I don't say always. I don't say never super rare, um, because I like to be precise in my speech. But this is another situation where it just is what it is.

Speaker 1: These are the laws of behavior, the principles of behavior, they don't change <laugh>, okay? So what it looks like for every dog might be different, but accountability is accountability is accountability. And if that goes away, your dog will know it's gone away. They will know, they know when the sheriff's not in town. That's just normal. That's your dog's brain functioning as it should and your dog's behavior adapting as it should. Um, so accountability has to be forever, okay? So the way you can evaluate a training program and how difficult it's going to be to stick, right?

Speaker 1: How much maintenance you're gonna have to do long term is number one. Does that training program provide accountability? So if it's a purely reward program,

Speaker 1: That's not going to stick, that's not going to make real change, okay? Because in a purely reward program, number one, the dog has to want the reward and it has to want it more than whatever else it wants, right? Every single time. And when it doesn't, then it doesn't work. So you're always, always, always in a tug of war with the other temptations in the environment. Um,

05:00 — Reward-only training fails when competing environmental temptations matter more to the dog than the…

Speaker 1: So obviously that's not going to be the most effective program, and you will have to do that forever, right? You will always have to have the bribe on hand to have any hope of being effective, and you still might not be effective in some situations. Okay? So that's not a good training program. Um, not saying you can't use rewards, I'm just saying rewards alone is not a complete training program and will not yield you the long-term effective results that you want, <laugh>, <laugh> that I would assume you want. So what most of us want, um, I find that when you find a good program that is effective training, um, a lot of people call it balanced training.

Speaker 1: I don't like to use that term. Um, I think it's kind of a meaningless term and I really don't like to label effective training as anything other than just that it's effective training, meaning you use what works, right?

Speaker 1: So we build up a behavior, um, whatever way works for that dog. And if you wanted to get sciency about it, which I don't usually like to do, but if you did, you know, you might be using rewards. We do that a ton. You might be using food, you might be using affection, you might be using leash pressure and guidance. You might be using quote unquote negative reinforcement with low level eco. You might be doing a lot of things, but you do what you need to do to build up the behavior in the most effective way possible for that dog.

Speaker 1: And then after you've done that, then you provide accountability and negative consequences for not complying with something that they understand the commands, right?

Speaker 1: So you build up the behavior and then you punish the dog not complying, okay? That's effective training. Here's the problem. Here's why that training program is often not effective. It's not, it's not that the concept is wrong, it's that the humans that are actually handling the dog, right? The owners, the family are not properly trained on how to do that <laugh>. So, so if you do a training program where they just train the dog and then they just don't train you, or they say they train you, but they really only give you half the information, half of the truth, you will not be effective long term.

08:00 — Training often fails because dogs learn commands with trainers but not that those commands…

Speaker 1: Okay? So I get lots of dogs in here that have already been through an eco program and the dog knows their stuff, they know their stuff really well. Here's what they don't know. They don't know that those things are required at home with their family.

Speaker 1: And the reason they don't know that is because no trainer can do that for you. They can only tell you and show you how to do it, and then you have to go home and do it. You have to go home and implement accountability in your own home attached to you personally and your environment. If you don't, your dog will know there's no accountability with you. Um, so they develop individual relationships with everybody and they will take advantage of whoever they can. Again, they know when the sheriff's not in town, they're not silly. It's very simple math.

Speaker 1: So dogs always believe what they expect, unlike humans, right? We believe everything we read on the internet, <laugh> dogs believe what they experience, um, which is an advantage for them, <laugh>. So, um, but I find most of the dogs we get that have already been e-collar trained, the people have been sent home either with very little instruction on how to use the eco or they've been giving instruction on how to not use it properly.

Speaker 1: Meaning they're not providing accountability with it. They're nagging their dog on levels that are very, very low. Sometimes trainers will even go as far as saying never turn it up above such and such a level, uh, which is just bologna, just complete bologna. So the only tried and true way to provide eco accountability is to listen to the dog. So the dog picks the level of intensity that it cares about. The dog picks the level of intensity that will interrupt a behavior. The dog picks the level of intensity that will permanently alter a behavior and get 'em to make different decisions long term, right?

Speaker 1: The level that makes things stick, that's not chosen by you, that's chosen by the dog, but people don't go home with that information a lot of the time. And so they're just nag, nag, nag, nag, nag on that e-collar, um, and they can't make things stick. And of course, the second they set that remote down, all hell breaks loose.

Speaker 1: Okay? And so it's important that it is a program. And now whether you're doing an eco program or they're teaching you to provide accountability another way, which we don't do, for the most part, we do eco, um, because it's the most practical, right? But let's say there are some programs out there, I guess probably to keep the price lower and such where they just use a prong collar and a leash, and your dog drags a leash for a while at home. Like, okay, that's fine. It doesn't change any of these rules. You have to provide the accountability.

Speaker 1: It has to be meaningful, accountability and all that stuff. Same principles, okay? It's just a little harder to do, right? Because pushing a button is a little bit easier, <laugh> and just having a dial and being able to do all that stuff at a distance is easier. Um, but accountability is Accountability is accountability, right? And they can have it with the trainer, but they have to have it with you at home. And if you're not educated on, on that how to do that, um, then it just won't stick. It just won't stick. So if you do a training program, my advice would be to not go home without that information.

Speaker 1: Ask yourself, do I know what to do when my dog does this or that? And then go home. If you do, that's great. Go home, do it and see if it sticks.

12:00 — Owners should test whether training sticks by checking if unwanted behavior returns repeatedly at…

Speaker 1: See if it sticks, okay? Because if it doesn't, meaning if you're having to do it over and over and over and over again, then you're not stopping that behavior, okay? That's a fail. You're nagging your dog, you're telling them over and over and over and over again not to do something. And I think a lot of people actually kind of have an idea in their head thinking like that's how it's supposed to be. That's not how it's supposed to be. If there's a behavior your dog does that you don't like, or even if they just don't listen to you and it's a command that they know thing, you should be able to change that pretty much permanently, right?

Speaker 1: So I'm not saying your dog will be perfect from there on out. They'll still make mistakes, sometimes might still test a boundary sometimes, but it should be rare, right? So let's say your dog barks out the window at people. You do what your trainer told you to do, and maybe it works in the moment, but then they're doing it again an hour later and an hour later, and the next day and the next day, then that means that's not working. It should go away, guys. Things should get easier, behavior should be reduced and eliminated. If it's not, then you're missing information or you're not executing it.

Speaker 1: So ask yourself, which,

Speaker 1: So what do we tell our clients when they go home? So as discussed, we're using ecos. It's just by and large, it is just the easiest, most practical, efficient, effective tool to use for this stuff. Um, it's adjustable, you know, so it's perfect for literally almost any dog, um, and any person, right? So the softest person and the harshest person can both be the same exact level of effective, right? So that makes it just an awesome, awesome tool. Um, but whether you're using that or not, again, I just wanna remind you, same principles apply, but I'm gonna tell you what we tell people to get long-term results that stick.

Speaker 1: And here's why I wanna talk about this. Because inevitably, let's say half maybe of our clients, when I see them down the road, they say he or she talking about their dog, dog is doing great and listens really well, at least when their caller is on <laugh>. I have so much I could say about that. But here's the biggest thing. If you even know that, if you know that your dog doesn't listen when the caller is not on that your dog doesn't behave when the caller is not on,

Speaker 1: Then right off the bat we know you're doing something wrong because you shouldn't even know that. You shouldn't even know that. So when our dogs go home from a board and train program, the very first thing we do, the owners show up the big day. We all sit down, we talk a little bit about the equipment, about the e-collar, about the on collar, you know, um, and then we say the e-collar should be on your dog all the time, all the time. And we really emphasize that. And we emphasize that means the only time you take it off is to charge it.

16:00 — Peppe recommends keeping the e-collar on continuously, removing it only for charging while the…

Speaker 1: And when you do that, your dog's in the kennel. You don't take the e-collar off your dog until they're in the kennel, and you don't bring them outta the kennel until the e-collar is back on the dog. And that's your routine for a long time. And then of course, everyone wants to know, well, how long? Well, I don't know. It doesn't matter. You shouldn't even be thinking about it

Speaker 2: <laugh>.

Speaker 1: You shouldn't even be thinking about taking it off. So when you can, is dependent on both the dog and how effective you are with it, right? So if you're just gonna spend a couple months nagging, nagging, nagging, and then take it off, you're screwed. You're screwed. So I say just don't even take it off. Like leave it on, leave it on for a good long time. Don't even think about it, okay, six months, 12 months, I don't know, but just don't even think about it. Um, and while it's on, use it meaningfully, okay? Do the training.

Speaker 1: Go through the process, right? I'm not saying just put it on, punish your dog. That won't be effective. Put it on, use it properly. Okay? Teach your dog what you want, teach your dog what you don't want, but then ultimately provide accountability, like we talked about earlier, that sticks.

Speaker 1: That's the key. And then everything gets easier for your dog and more natural. They start doing this stuff by default on their own without being nagged, without you needing to push buttons all the time. And you develop a different relationship because you develop a relationship of trust and accountability and reliability where your dog knows, they know what the boundaries are, they know what the expectations are, they know that there's accountability with you, and then the necessity for the caller really dwindles at that point, right? But you can't build that relationship by taking the caller on and off or providing your accountability on and off or just, you know, nagging your dog with merely annoying consequences that don't matter.

Speaker 1: You'll never build a relationship of leadership with your dog. You'll never get your dog into follower mode. You'll never get your dog taking you seriously. You'll never develop clear rules and boundaries that your dog isn't confused about or doesn't think they can push.

Speaker 1: If you're doing those things, it just won't happen. It has to be consistent, right? So the example I use a lot is those, um, invisible fences, right? Those are super, super effective. So sometimes there are dogs that they know the fence, they know where the boundary is, they know how awful it is, and they still choose to plow through it. Um, but that's really rare, right? Super, super rare. And so 99.9% of dogs or whatever aren't gonna do that. And there's a reason the fence guys is consistent and it's meaningful, and that's it. Like, that's all the magic there is to those fences.

Speaker 1: There's nothing else there, right? So <laugh>, my new, my new slogan has become, um, become the fence, right? Be the fence. That's your goal with all this training stuff. It's like, be as consistent as the fence is. Be as meaningful as the fence is. And it sticks. It sticks. I mean, we see it all the time with the invisible fences, right? The dog does have to have an experience that is really unpleasant, but then most dogs never have that experience again 'cause they don't need to. Um, but the fence doesn't give second chances. It doesn't bend rules, it doesn't make excuses, it doesn't feel guilty, it doesn't, nag doesn't give second, you know what I mean?

20:00 — Like an invisible fence, effective boundaries do not bend or offer second chances after…

Speaker 1: It just does its job. It draws a boundary and it makes it unpleasant to, um, cross the boundary.

Speaker 1: And that's it.

Speaker 1: So if you want something to stick, you have to think like that, okay? And again, I just wanna reiterate, you can't just throw any collar on your dog and expect them to know what to do with it. When we're talking about obedience stuff, right? Like sit, lay down, go to place, walk in a heel, come back when called is a big one, right? If you just put an e-collar on your dog and try to get that stuff, and they don't know what to do because they haven't felt it before and they don't know what it means, you're probably not gonna get the results you want.

Speaker 1: Sometimes people do, especially if your dog knows the commands well, um, but a lot of times they don't.

Speaker 1: Right? However, if we're just talking about unwanted behaviors like jumping on people barking, um, that actually takes a lot less training. And I'll talk about that more on a future episode. Um, but I mean, I, I mostly wanted to convey on this episode, I think just if you do a training program, whether you're doing the training yourself or you're using a trainer, ultimately every single thing you teach your dog about wanted behaviors and about unwanted behaviors, you're gonna have to provide that accountability forever. Now, if you do it the right way, you're not gonna have to do it frequently.

Speaker 1: It's gonna be a rare occasion, um, but it's gonna be forever, right? So it's as simple as that. Your dog will know when the sheriff's not in town. That's normal. There will never come a day in your dog's life that you don't have to provide accountability. The goal is to get your dog to a point where they rarely need you to do that because they believe you will do that. That's the key. That's the gold. That's where it's at. All right guys, that's it for today's episode. Be the Fence. Okay, <laugh>, thanks for joining me today, and I look forward to the next one.